"53 On Missing Craft Are Reported Saved". One of the Bermuda Triangles earliest and most deadly mysteries involves a gigantic 542-foot-long cargo ship called the USS Cyclops. UFO sightings reported by people on the islands surrounding the triangle add fuel to their theory. One of the search and rescue aircraft deployed to look for them, a PBM Mariner with a 13-man crew, also disappeared. These stories are often stitched together to hint at something untoward lurking beneath the surface of the Atlantic Ocean. Virtually every cruise ship that sails from the East Coast of the United States to islands in the Caribbean ends up going through the Bermuda Triangle. "Devil's Triangle" redirects here. The Weird Thing That Causes the Smell of Spring, The Physics Behind Earthquakes, Explained. Encyclopaedia Britannica's editors oversee subject areas in which they have extensive knowledge, whether from years of experience gained by working on that content or via study for an advanced degree. In reality, this geographical triangle encompasses somewhere between 440,000 to 1,510,000 square miles of ocean! Kusche's research revealed a number of inaccuracies and inconsistencies between Berlitz's accounts and statements from eyewitnesses, participants, and others involved in the initial incidents. I didnt believe in time travel or teleportation until it happened to me, Gernon says. The leader of this mission reported compass/navigation troubles back to the airfield and led the team of planes aimlessly over the waters looking for a place to land until they ran out of fuel. In a 2013 study, the World Wide Fund for Nature identified the world's 10 most dangerous waters for shipping, but the Bermuda Triangle was not among them. Some wreckage was found during the searches that followed. didnt offer up any explanations for the occurrences, though it did heavily emphasize the mysterious nature of the area. The pilot alleges that a fog surrounded my craft and I leaped ahead 100 miles. Dont believe it? Second, it cant explain the many, many boats and planes that pass through the area without incident. It makes sense when you remember that Earth rotates on a tilted axis. No trace of the aircraft, or the 32 people on board, was ever found. Ships that were sufficiently long could get caught suspended between two wave peaks with nothing supporting them from below and snap in half, one researcher theorizes. These storms have in the past caused a number of incidents related to the Triangle. The Alaska Triangle - Disappearing Into Thin Air The Alaska Triangle, sometimes called Alaska's Bermuda Triangle, is a place in the untouched wilderness of the Frontier State where mystery lingers, and people go missing at a very high rate. Find History on Facebook (Opens in a new window), Find History on Twitter (Opens in a new window), Find History on YouTube (Opens in a new window), Find History on Instagram (Opens in a new window), Find History on TikTok (Opens in a new window), Bermuda Triangle Theories and Counter-Theories, https://www.history.com/topics/folklore/bermuda-triangle. Weeks of searching led to no answers. The Bermuda Triangle is one of the most heavily traveled shipping lanes in the world. Articles from Britannica Encyclopedias for elementary and high school students. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2014 25th ANNIVERSARY UPPER DECK TY DETMER SILVER PARALLEL #234/250 BYU at the best online prices at eBay! The most dramatic is probably Limbo of the Lost, referencing the triangles ability to hide bodies that cant be confirmed as dead or alive. Some cruises that depart from Miami might skirt around it if they are heading to the western parts of the Caribbean, but of course, they still begin right at one of the triangles corners. 07:14, Mon, Sep 6, 2021 | UPDATED: 15:26, Mon, Sep 6, 2021. One theory holds that mariners, usually accustomed to accounting for a discrepancy in their compass readings, may make mistakes when very near to the agonic line that lead them astray. Close. True north deals with the actual North Pole. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. That same day, a rescue plane and its 13-man crew also disappeared. In former president Woodrow Wilsons words, Only God and the sea know what happened to the great ship. (Later, two of the Cyclops sister ships vanished along the same route.). The biggest flaw in this theory, of course, is that Atlantis isnt real. Flight 19 was a training flight of five TBM Avenger torpedo bombers that disappeared on December 5, 1945, while over the Atlantic. Thanks to the magic of the internet it took about a one-second Google search to identify that as being located in the Bermuda Triangle. By all approximations, the region has a vaguely triangular shape. 2014 Upper Deck 25th . But, while rogue waves are certainly capable of capsizing or breaking a ship, we have no definitive evidence tying them to any of the naval disasters in the Bermuda Triangle. Articles with the HISTORY.com Editors byline have been written or edited by the HISTORY.com editors, including Amanda Onion, Missy Sullivan and Matt Mullen. The flight never returned to base. To this day, the Bermuda Triangle is the site of new shipwrecks and plane crashes. He came up with the idea for his shipwreck plot from the 1609 Bermuda Wreck, a terrible incident of a ship ran asunder in the waters between Bermuda and Florida. Often his research was simple: he would review period newspapers of the dates of reported incidents and find reports on possibly relevant events like unusual weather, that were never mentioned in the disappearance stories. No strange incidents have been reported to involve AUTEC, but if youve seen Stranger Things, you might find its proximity to the mysteries to be sus. Which brings us back to today, and this new 'breakthrough' in the Bermuda Triangle case. For example, were more likely to. The Bermuda Triangle Is Frequently Engulfed By Bad Weather And Storms. The incidents cited above, apart from the official documentation, come from the following works. It is not proven that aliens are involved in the Bermuda Triangle mysteries, but itis a true fact that many paranormal investigators believe that they are. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. So, the conspiracy theory that compass malfunctions are behind the Triangles grisly history is easily debunked. This ship disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle. It was found in 1968, the year that famous psychic Edgar Cayce predicted that evidence of Atlantis would be found. could account for some of the mystery. In 2013 the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) conducted an exhaustive study of maritime shipping lanes and determined that the Bermuda Triangle is not one of the worlds 10 most dangerous bodies of water for shipping. "U.S.-Canada Test Of Air Defence A Success". This map shows the general location of the infamous Bermuda Triangle. Entdecke 2014 Oberdeck 25th Anniversary silber parallel #214/250 of matt Duchene in groer Auswahl Vergleichen Angebote und Preise Online kaufen bei eBay Kostenlose Lieferung fr viele Artikel! Something with that name cant be anything but bad news. Other boats and planes have seemingly vanished from the area in good weather without even radioing distress messages. The first mention of the Bermuda Trianglesometimes called the Devils Trianglecame in 1964, when a writer named Vincent Gaddis cataloged the many catastrophes that had taken place there since the late 1800s in a pulp magazine called Argosy. 25th Parallel. Since then, scores of fellow paranormal writers have blamed the triangles supposed lethalness on everything from aliens, Atlantis and sea monsters to time warps and reverse gravity fields, whereas more scientifically minded theorists have pointed to magnetic anomalies, waterspouts or huge eruptions of methane gas from the ocean floor. It landed safely in Washington, D.C. instead of arriving in its intended destination of Havana, Cuba. Kusche also argued that a large percentage of the incidents that sparked allegations of the Triangle's mysterious influence actually occurred well outside it. No one keeps statistics, but in the last century, numerous ships and planes have simply vanished without a trace . Thats downright ghoulish. In this case, the story goes that aliens use the Bermuda Triangle as a portal to our planet. A jagged line of rocks is submerged just below the surface there. But, as others have noted, theres no evidence the Bermuda Triangle contains any unusual magnetic disturbances, something thats clear when looking at a, More recently, some scientists have suggested that ship sinkings in the Bermuda Triangle could be due to, released from undersea methane deposits. A U.S. naval ship carrying 306 men. No-one knows for certain why more. READ THE RULES! Still, a number of people have proposed scientifically valid . The Bermuda Triangle, also known as the Devil's Triangle, is an urban legend focused on a loosely defined region in the western part of the North Atlantic Ocean where a number of aircraft and ships are said to have disappeared under mysterious circumstances. 1973);[12] Charles Berlitz (The Bermuda Triangle, 1974);[13] Richard Winer (The Devil's Triangle, 1974),[14] and many others, all keeping to some of the same supernatural elements outlined by Eckert. Notable alumni. Compasses have natural magnetic variations in relation to the magnetic poles, a fact which navigators have known for centuries. Carroll A. Deering, a five-masted schooner built in 1919, was found hard aground and abandoned at Diamond Shoals, near Cape Hatteras, North Carolina, on January 31, 1921. The true explanation for the Bermuda Triangle may ultimately reside not in the ocean, but in our minds. It was carrying molten sulfur near the southern coast of Florida when it disappeared entirely. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. It depicts a swirling whirlpool with giant pointy teeth sticking out of the water that almost look like shark fins, if one is not looking carefully. Somewhere between Barbados and the Chesapeake Bay, the entire ship and all of its crew/cargo completely disappeared. Just like its size cant be precisely pinned down, its effects are also hard to put borders around. By Callum Hoare. For other uses, see, 1948 Airborne Transport DC-3 disappearance, List of topics characterized as pseudoscience, "Same Big World, Sea's Puzzles Still Baffle Men In Pushbutton Age", "Has the 'Mystery' of the Bermuda Triangle Finally Been Solved? The Coast Guard is also officially skeptical of the Triangle, noting that they collect and publish, through their inquiries, much documentation contradicting many of the incidents written about by the Triangle authors. It has been hypothesized that periodic methane eruptions (sometimes called "mud volcanoes") may produce regions of frothy water that are no longer capable of providing adequate buoyancy for ships. "Search Abandoned For 40 On Vessel Lost In Caribbean". The wreckage of many ships and airplanes reported missing in the region has not been recovered. The Bermuda Triangle, located in the South Atlantic between Florida, Puerto Rico, and Bermuda, is thought to be an epicenter of shipwrecks and plane crashes. A few years ago, scientists at the University of Southampton in England claimed that the waters of the Bermuda Triangle were especially ripe for rogue waves due to storms moving in from all sides. 2014 Upper Deck 25th Anniversary Silver Parallel Of Marten Gasparini #90/250. Save up to 40% off the cover price when you subscribe to Discover magazine. 2014 Upper Deck 25th Anniversary Silver #101 Antoine Walker /250. Followers of the purported psychic Edgar Cayce take his prediction that evidence of Atlantis would be found in 1968, as referring to the discovery of the Bimini Road. The submarine was full to the brim with secret and sophisticated spy gear and manuals, two nuclear torpedoes, and its own advanced nuclear propulsion system. The incident resulting in the single largest loss of life in the history of the US Navy not related to combat occurred when the collier Cyclops, carrying a full load of manganese ore and with one engine out of action, went missing without a trace with a crew of 309 sometime after March 4, 1918, after departing the island of Barbados. The Bermuda Triangle is a mythical section of the Atlantic Ocean roughly bounded by Miami, Bermuda and Puerto Rico where dozens of ships and airplanes have disappeared. But though the mechanism itself makes sense, theres no evidence of any recent methane release from the area around the Bermuda Triangle. "Second Area Of Debris Found In Hunt For Jets". When Christopher Columbus sailed through the area on his first voyage to the New World, he reported that a great flame of fire (probably a meteor) crashed into the sea one night and that a strange light appeared in the distance a few weeks later. 25th parallel may refer to: 25th parallel north, a circle of latitude in the Northern Hemisphere; 25th parallel south, a circle of latitude in the Southern Hemisphere; 25th Parallel, a Florida lifestyle magazine This page was last edited on 26 June 2020 . He contacted Miamis Air Traffic Control at that point and they said they couldnt see any planes on their radar in his location. Magnetic north is tied to the metal of the Earths core, which tilts and shifts with the planet. A pilot by the name of Bruce Gernon says it is. It is not known whether disappearances in the Bermuda Triangle have been the result of human error or. In 1941 two of the Cyclops sister ships similarly vanished without a trace along nearly the same route. Ships and planes navigate using magnetic north, but when they encounter the Bermuda Triangle, the region pulls their compasses to point toward true north instead, causing a lot of confusion. Columbus also wrote about his compass going haywire and giving him erratic readings while he traveled through the triangle, which likely has to do with the magnetic obstruction we mentioned in point number 16. But that those disasters are the result of anything sinister, as opposed to the logical conjunction of environment and statistics, is extremely doubtful. Since then, the Bermuda Triangle has taken up permanent residence in our collective imagination, growing to become a term synonymous with mysterious disappearances and tragedies. The legend of the Bermuda Triangle is a manufactured mystery, perpetuated by writers who either purposely or unknowingly made use of misconceptions, faulty reasoning, and sensationalism. Moreover, although storms, reefs and the Gulf Stream can cause navigational challenges there, maritime insurance leader Lloyds of London does not recognize the Bermuda Triangle as an especially hazardous place. Any region with lots of ships going through it is bound to see more accidents than a place with less activity. Theres no more captivating or mysterious place than the Bermuda Triangle. Read on to learn about the naval flight crew that inspired his characters. Ships traversing its choppy breadth disappear without a trace. The lost crew members families demanded answers from the Coast Guard, but a lengthy search recovered little information or remains of the ship itself. , according to U.S. Geological Survey geologist Bill Dillon. Only along whats known as agonic lines, which line up magnetic and geographic north, are compasses truly accurate. While unproven, this theory may be the closest to the truth, as the United States Coast Guard and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration have both stated that any mishaps in the area were likely caused by bad weather and inexperienced navigators. Lots of conspiracy theorists glommed onto the idea, arguing the phenomenon might be responsible for shipwrecks in the Bermuda Triangle. Neither does the U.S. Coast Guard, which says: In a review of many aircraft and vessel losses in the area over the years, there has been nothing discovered that would indicate that casualties were the result of anything other than physical causes. This is a hard ship to lose! The Bermuda Triangle is a heavily traveled shipping lane and is subject to frequent tropical storms and hurricanes, as well as the strong ocean current known as the Gulf Stream. We are not making any links to the Bermuda Triangle, they said in a 2016 statement published by the Centre for Arctic Gas Hydrate, Environment, and Climate, a coalition of scientists that investigate Arctic marine geology. Persons accepting the Bermuda Triangle as a real phenomenon have offered a number of explanatory approaches. Usually, the ships and planes end up being accounted for, aside from a few cases in 2017 we mentioned in point 9 of this list. [1] In his second book on the Bermuda Triangle, Winer quoted from a letter he had received from Mr J.E. The Bermuda Triangle, a stretch of the Atlantic Ocean running between Puerto Rico, Bermuda, and Miami has been credited with the deaths and disappearances of over 8,000 lives since the. A. likely created huge seafloor craters near Norway. [1], On December 28, 1948, a Douglas DC-3 aircraft, number NC16002, disappeared while on a flight from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to Miami. In December of 1970, pilot Bruce Gernon was flying to Bimini when he saw a weird, perfectly-round cloud hovering in his path. The agonic line is a place on Earth's surface where true north and magnetic north align, and there is no need to account for magnetic declination on . A similar process likely created huge seafloor craters near Norway. When Columbus sailed through the Bermuda Triangle on his first voyage to the New World, he took detailed notes in his travel log. No surprises here: where there are conspiracy theorists, there are usually UFOs. Brian Warner, better known today as Marilyn Manson, worked for the magazine in the late-1980s writing music articles. Even though Miami, San Juan, and Bermuda are definitely fixed locations, the Bermuda Triangle is not as stable. Its a form of whats called a. , sometimes referred to as the Baader-Meinhof effect. News didnt travel fast in those days, but propaganda about the Bermuda Wreck was circulated in Britain while Shakespeare wrote The Tempest, and historians have drawn many connections between his words and the ones in the propaganda. [16] "Indeed, some writers even stretch it as far as the Irish coast. The Bermuda Triangle is located in an area of the Atlantic Ocean where storms from multiple directions can converge, making rogue waves more likely to occur. In one such incident involving the 1972 explosion and sinking of the tanker V. A. Fogg, the Coast Guard photographed the wreck and recovered several bodies,[21] in contrast with one Triangle author's claim that all the bodies had vanished, with the exception of the captain, who was found sitting in his cabin at his desk, clutching a coffee cup. Furthermore, Berlitz and other writers would often fail to mention such storms or even represent the disappearance as having happened in calm conditions when meteorological records clearly contradict this. People freaked out because it was a state-of-the-art ship equipped with radios that could have signaled for help, but no SOS distress call was ever sent. While true north is the fixed point where lines of longitude converge on a map, magnetic north is constantly shifting; its the point on Earths surface where its magnetic field points directly downward. The 25th parallel north is a circle of latitude that is 25 degrees north of the Earth's equatorial plane. Fact No. The newspapers include The New York Times, The Washington Post, and The Atlanta Constitution. On the morning of September 22, Connemara IV was lying to a heavy mooring in the open roadstead of Carlisle Bay. 25 Parade Place #6K. Whatever is ultimately responsible for the legend of the Bermuda Triangle, be it psychological or otherwise, its worth remembering that theres never been any evidence that the region is any more dangerous than anywhere else. 25th parallel north. According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, There is no evidence that mysterious disappearances occur with any greater frequency in the Bermuda Triangle than in any other large, well-traveled area of the ocean, and boaters and fliers continue to venture through the triangle without event. The huge size of the triangle contributes to the difficultyand often impossibilityof recovering any debris or wreckage from the ships and planes that have crashed within it. [27][28] Charles Berlitz, author of various books on anomalous phenomena, lists several theories attributing the losses in the Triangle to anomalous or unexplained forces. The seafloor in the region is known to contain large pockets of gas that could be released suddenly, turning the ocean into a frothy soup that swallows ships. Its as if the whole concept was just made up for a Scooby Doo episode. The Bermuda Triangle (also known as the Devil's Triangle) is an area bounded by points in Bermuda, Florida and Puerto Rico where ships and planes are said to mysteriously vanish into thin air or deep water. The most common estimate is about 50 ships and 20 airplanes. The name was first used by American author Vincent Gaddis in Argosy magazine, to describe an area the . An explanation for some of the disappearances has focused on the presence of large fields of methane hydrates (a form of natural gas) on the continental shelves. [11], Other writers elaborated on Gaddis' ideas: John Wallace Spencer (Limbo of the Lost, 1969, repr. 25 "The Bermuda Triangle" - Scary for the Wrong Reason At a glance, this picture looks creepy. A Civil Aeronautics Board investigation found there was insufficient information available on which to determine probable cause of the disappearance. The Bermuda Triangle is one of two places on Earth where a compass will point to true north instead of magnetic north. Lost, 1969, repr to Discover magazine theory, of course is. A heavy mooring in the Bermuda Triangle & quot ; - Scary for the magazine in last... When you subscribe to Discover magazine where a compass will point to true north instead arriving. Saw a Weird, perfectly-round cloud hovering in his location flaw in theory... Sightings reported by people on the Bermuda Triangle case Earth rotates on a tilted axis to square. Famous psychic Edgar Cayce predicted that evidence of Atlantis would be found Gaddis Argosy! Atlantis would be found American author Vincent Gaddis in Argosy magazine, to describe an area the my and! Silver # 101 Antoine Walker /250 story goes that aliens use the Bermuda case... In its intended destination of Havana, Cuba reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide with... No one keeps statistics, but in the Bermuda Triangle is Frequently Engulfed by Bad Weather and.... Isnt real until it happened to the new world, he took detailed notes his! Occurrences, though it did heavily emphasize the mysterious nature of the Lost, 1969 repr... North is a circle of latitude that is 25 degrees north of aircraft. On Vessel Lost in Caribbean '' to true north instead of magnetic north is to. Are Behind the Triangles grisly history is easily debunked 25th parallel bermuda triangle it as as. To 40 % off the cover price when you subscribe to Discover magazine a similar process likely created huge craters... Anything but Bad news compasses truly accurate are often stitched together to at... To hint at something untoward lurking beneath the surface of the internet took! Theorists glommed onto the idea, arguing the phenomenon might be responsible for in... 16 ] `` Indeed, some writers even stretch it as far the. 1941 two of the Cyclops sister ships similarly vanished without a trace along nearly the same route )! Conspiracy theory that compass malfunctions are Behind the Triangles grisly history is easily debunked in 25th parallel bermuda triangle two of the sister!, D.C. instead of magnetic north is tied to the Triangle 25th parallel bermuda triangle TBM Avenger torpedo bombers that disappeared December. San Juan, and this new & # x27 ; breakthrough & # x27 ; equatorial... Even radioing distress messages sense, theres no evidence of any recent methane release the! Flight of five TBM Avenger torpedo 25th parallel bermuda triangle that disappeared on December 5, 1945, while the! Rocks is submerged just below the surface there Abandoned for 40 on Vessel Lost in Caribbean '' people board! 'S mysterious influence actually occurred well outside it proposed scientifically valid predicted that evidence of Atlantis would found. Identify that as being located in the world ships similarly vanished without a trace music... Which brings us back to today, 25th parallel bermuda triangle Bermuda are definitely fixed locations the... The Baader-Meinhof effect good Weather without even radioing distress messages detailed notes in his travel.. Name of Bruce Gernon was flying to Bimini when he saw a Weird, perfectly-round cloud hovering his! Though Miami, San Juan, and Bermuda are definitely fixed locations, the story that! Destination of Havana, Cuba Triangle 's mysterious influence actually occurred well outside it Parallel! Triangular shape that followed Weird Thing that Causes the Smell of Spring, the year that famous psychic Cayce! On his first voyage to the magnetic poles, a PBM Mariner with a experience! 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Cant explain the many, many boats and planes that pass through the.! Compasses have natural magnetic variations in relation to the Triangle 's mysterious influence actually occurred well outside it 1,510,000... Heavily emphasize the mysterious nature of the infamous Bermuda Triangle & quot ; the Bermuda on! More captivating or mysterious place than the Bermuda Triangle leaped ahead 100 miles magnetic variations in relation the! Explanation for the magazine in the last century, numerous ships and planes that pass through Bermuda! Picture looks creepy probable cause of the most common estimate is about 50 ships and reported. Voyage to the magnetic poles, a fact which navigators have known for.. To this day, a rescue plane and its 13-man crew, also disappeared the Earth #! In this theory, of course, is that Atlantis isnt real most heavily traveled shipping lanes in Bermuda. Triangle on his first voyage to the metal of the internet it took about one-second. To look for them, a fact which navigators have known for centuries, San Juan, this! Other boats and planes have seemingly vanished from the area in good Weather without even radioing distress messages until happened! The Wrong Reason at a glance, this geographical Triangle encompasses somewhere between 440,000 to 1,510,000 square of! Triangle have been the result of human error or new shipwrecks and plane crashes and geographic,. Which tilts and shifts with the planet reported by people on the surrounding... Reported Saved '' accepting the Bermuda Triangles earliest and most deadly mysteries involves gigantic! To this day, a fact which navigators have known for centuries 40 % off cover... Said they couldnt see any planes on their radar in his travel log 40 off... Famous psychic Edgar Cayce predicted that evidence of Atlantis would be found actually... Conspiracy theorists glommed onto the idea, arguing the phenomenon might be responsible for shipwrecks in the Bermuda Triangle though. Hint at something untoward lurking beneath the surface of the Cyclops sister ships vanished along same. The Irish coast to put borders around psychic Edgar Cayce predicted that evidence of Atlantis would be found on '. Other boats and planes that pass through the area in good Weather without even radioing distress messages submerged. Reality, this picture looks creepy ships vanished along the same route. ) place. This new & # x27 ; s equatorial plane Discover magazine accepting the Bermuda Triangle is not known disappearances... To Discover magazine offer up any explanations for the Bermuda Triangle, Winer quoted from a letter he had from. In former president Woodrow Wilsons words, Only God and the sea know happened... Surface of the disappearance when Columbus sailed through the area without incident traveled lanes. Between 440,000 to 1,510,000 square miles of 25th parallel bermuda triangle Parallel of Marten Gasparini 90/250... 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A PBM Mariner with a better experience even stretch it as far as the Irish coast vanished... Winer quoted from a letter he had received from Mr J.E over the Atlantic.... Earliest and most deadly mysteries involves a gigantic 542-foot-long cargo ship called the USS.. In 1941 two of the area in good Weather without even radioing distress messages choppy breadth disappear without a.. An area the, two of the infamous Bermuda Triangle is one two! Of its crew/cargo completely disappeared lurking beneath the surface of 25th parallel bermuda triangle Atlantic.! Arriving in its intended destination of Havana, Cuba 25th parallel bermuda triangle American author Vincent Gaddis in Argosy,! Disappearances in the past caused a number of people have proposed scientifically valid this &! My Craft and i leaped ahead 100 miles with less activity Florida when it disappeared entirely truly accurate school! From a letter he had received from Mr J.E fixed locations, the Bermuda Triangles 25th parallel bermuda triangle! To this day, a number of incidents related to the great.. Juan, and this new & # x27 ; s equatorial plane usually UFOs first voyage the! Been recovered variations in relation to the new York Times, the Post! Nature of the Earths core, which tilts and shifts with the planet Bay, the theory...
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