dog training pigeons for saledog training pigeons for sale

Since four square feet per bird is the recommended space requirement, many people raise a couple of pairs in backyard pens in urban areas. Eggs hatch in 17 to 18 days. Call -- to see. Each time you take your dog out for a training session in the field expect to go through the same number of birds. Because this homing instinct is so strong, avoid buying mature birds over four months old unless you are willing to have a breeding loft where you can keep these birds contained for the rest of their lives and only use their offspring to keep as training birds. $3 each. There is much work to do still. Hi there, I have wild/caught feral pigeons for sale. A proud member of: 5520 Lynn Hill Road Nekoosa, WI 54457 Email: mwhack@wctc.net Phone: (715) 570-1013. The pigeon pole is fantastic, but its an acquired skill, Cardwell said. Cranberry Creek Gamebirds, LLC, farm raised game birds and eggs for sale. Want to teach your dog to remain staunch after a flush? Bailey sent us a selfie with one of the huge rescued pigeons as soon as she got home. The Scots Guards spent their first three weeks of training confined to camp at Pirbright. fixed several issues as well as increased the update rate for the Barks Per Minute widget. When youre training dogs, you need to have control of all the factors you can, she said. SHOW QUALITY HELMET PIGEONS FOR SALE. Category : Columbidae. Once youve established a loft there are long-term bird-keeping nuances to learn, but that is for another article. Every one of those champions spent some time on the pole. These birds are athletes in their own right and have been selectively bred over hundreds of years for speed, endurance, and an incredibly strong desire to make it back to their home perch. Pigeons create a lot of dander which is unhealthy for you and them. You might consider building a holding cage to stock up on trapped birds and save them for your training sessions, but by then, my friend, you should definitely just build a loft and keep homers yourself. My feelings were the same as everyone elses, something along the lines of Id like to do the same thing to the abuser but I also dont believe in abuse, period, none of it. Wings from Gamebirds. I will just tell the story from my perspective. I promptly got blocked and the Facebook page went private not much later. Colors include white black saddle back and grey. A loft like this will also withstand some moderate overcrowding. email: Kevingil77@yahoo.com. Your upcoming hunting or field-trial season will be more successful because of it. Even showed her pidges in diapers! Keep the pigeons in the enclosed building for about 4 weeks after purchasing them. Again the owner opened with some additional information and then telling me in light of all this information its been decided to stop using the pigeons, and asking if it was okay to release them. All Rights Reserved. Pigeons fit those criteria quite well. I just want to tackle any abuse when I can and help animals. safety tips; prohibited items; product recalls; post. Here I was, with a pile of proverbial ammunition to make my case about pigeons. Fun stuff. For bird dog owners and trainers, however, pigeons are a valuable asset. The better the birds can breathe, the healthier they will be in crowded conditions. Overcrowding leads to stress and stress leads to disease that can wipe out an entire flock. And four others too. 80. Sign In can you be in love with someone you haven t seen for years. | Sign In | Register Contact Sal at 516-672-8122 CO - Large pigeons Giant runt and black mix cocks available. account. Wait, you didnt get around to that yet and you are just now searching the internet for training pigeons? If youve never used pigeons for training, its likely youll at least look at pigeons a little differently the next time you see some roosting under a bridge or feeding in a park. And she has an interesting reason for that. If your dog thinks you're the greatest, don't go seeking a second opinion! They believe that the idea of getting their birds from poultry auctions, Craigslist, or trapping them is far less intimidating. Copyright 2005-2023 EquineNow.com, LLC. Just, food for thought perhaps. Sign In or start your online account. Cardwell says the key benefit of the pigeon pole is the control it gives the trainer. I plant a pigeon, let her find and point it, and then I flush the bird and shoot. Pigeons arent hard to keep and they arent particular. A coop can be a plywood box or an elaborate pigeon condominium. You are at the mercy of other people; poultry auctions are hit-or-miss when it comes to pigeon availability and another desperate bird dog owner may come along and outbid you. no favorites. Picup only, no shipping. An ideal loft location would be on a rooftop, making the loft itself the highest point around. Your supplier could be out of birds when you need them, or perhaps they command top dollar in your area. Last I heard the owner was giving some useful information for the fight against abuse like this. Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 3 of 3 Posts . That means you can use it for multiple repetitions, whether using it to work on steadying a dog to flush or even steadying to wing and shot. You can use them for dog training but you can not plant them on state game lands. However, older dogs often get sticky when you put out a pigeon, let them out of the truck, and expect them to go hunt for it. or start your online account, Already a subscriber? If I had known, I could have caught up on some more hours of sleep deprivation!!! Other colors are available for more. Sure, theyre not as good as wild birds for many training occasions, but wild birds arent always available or plentiful. Breathe, in out, remember Hanlons razor, be objective, calm, factual and prepared to hear the owner out as we expect them to. Subscribe to our channel here: http://bit.ly/2Dyy9DWWelcome to Standing Stone Kennels! BUILD YOUR COOP. Game Bird Wings Variety 6 pk, Pheasant Wings 2 pk, Pheasant Wings 6 pk, Pheasant Wings 12 pk, Pheasant Wings 24 pk, Sharptail Grouse Wings 2 pk, Chukar Wings 6 pk, Chukar Wings 2 pk, Quail Wings 2 pk, Quail Wings -- 6 Pack, Quail Wings 12 pk, Quail . js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; Ideally, we would all train on wild birds and our dogs would be perfect, but that isnt the case for the vast majority of us. The standardized loft design is mainly for your convenience in working with them. account. for sale. Ive been asked to write something for Palomacy about the pigeon rescue at a Texan kennel over Saturday through Wednesday. Young trainable and adult blue bar and blue check, homing pigeons for sale for $25.00 each. Palomacy @ Francisco Middle School STEAM Night. When your dog trains with us . I make my own decisions. With the pigeon pole, you can do that very readily.. While we were talking about, pigeons and several other subjects I reached out to Elizabeth of Palomacy and a few others to get something sorted as fast as we could muster. All Rights Reserved. Obedience stuff first but make it all fun. But just about any kind of line will work fairly well. I am elated, exhausted, made friends, enemies but mostly mentally exhausted, very, very exhausted. Jan 15, 2013. Training pigeons to return home to your loft or pen is doable, it just takes a bit of time and patience. Gender : Mixed Gender. This has been a victory I suppose but also a cautionary tale. Bird Dog & Retriever News, PO Box 120089, New Brighton, MN 55112, . Bird and Parrot classifieds. You need a 10-foot piece of Schedule 40 PVC pipe, a three to four-foot piece of rebar, a hammer, and some kind of line. So there you have it: the basics to get your foot in the door and wrap your mind around keeping pigeons. At $5 a bird, that's a $200 catch, cutting training expenses substantially. Eating on their own. Our Price: $249.99 Product Unavailable, currently undergoing manufacturer redesign . Pigeons are the only non-regulated bird in the United Stated. I'm willing to pay up to $5.00 per bird. Please keep in mind many people were involved in this entire thing, many boards. Many people, from all over the world, reacted with horror and anger and hurt to see this living being treated with such cruel disregard. The price is 80 a pair and shipment can be arra. White Homing Pigeons: $15.00 Barn Pigeons: $8.00 White homing pigeons for sale 10 bucks per bird call text or pm for more details Posted by Gilmore Brittanys on Saturday, August 11, 2018 (They are not FREE) Thanks. Plenty of city birds. Orange/White, 40LB, started male Brittany, D.O.B Jan. 2 2017. Message me with any questions. While you hold on to it with one hand, pull the legs out with the other. Im available should anyone want to enquire about something. The firewall on this server is blocking your connection. Many things have happened that I think are morally indefensible no matter the cause and Id like to apologize for what my part played in causing some people to threaten with violence, death and slinging verbal abuse at individuals who work at the kennel. Training Video Vizslas Weimaraners WP Griffons: Go to Canine Today.com Go to Bird-Dog-News.com . You should also be wary of various bird diseases that can be transmitted to humans, as feral pigeons are little more than rats with wings and the areas they inhabit in barns and under bridges are beyond filthy from the droppings of generations of disease-ridden feral birds. You can burn a lot of time and gas checking your traps. I admit that when we heard the pigeons were being kept in an 100x 80 pen, I imagined Id be chasing these poor birds around with a net during the hottest part of the daythats at least 100 in Texas this time of year! The kennel owner and I talked for probably about 20-30 minutes, baking in the sun, and our conversation ended with a hug! While there are many methods that can be effective if used correctly, one of the very best is with a simple tool called the pigeon pole. Trena Cardwell of Chukarhill Kennels in Kittitas, Washington, has been a professional dog trainer for 35 years. I started advocating abuse doesnt solve abuse, its a logical paradox. I have pigeons for sale for dog training - . Address: White Pigeon Sales - P.O. While it makes a life and death difference for these individuals, it does nothing to stop this cruelty. Thanks - Andy, not trying to start anything but is it even legal to sell wild caught pigeons , and how can a pigeon thats not in a cage be a feral pigeon, i guess you learn something new every day so does that mean we can shoot em to, Yes you can shoot them. The FieldKing Original Game Steward's Bird Bag is a state-of-the-art accessory for gun dog training, making bird transportation from the Quail Palace or Pigeon Coop to the training field a breeze. I proceeded to spread the video to another group asking people to join and help us do something about this. The video, seen now over 12,000 times on Facebook alone, showed the trainer laughingly using a live pigeon as a lure and toy to engage a puppy in get the bird. Call Now! Price varies depending on how many you need. Even if you are just planning on shooting them, they will often only flutter a few yards away, allowing the dog an opportunity to catch them. Location: MN-United States. Bird Launchers & Bird Launcher parts from Zinger Winger, Dogtra, DT Systems & More Bird launchers are an important part of dog training. Great flying birds. Bear with me, Id rather try and rehabilitate an aggressive pitbull than write a piece but here goes. Manufacturers, Guides / Outfitters. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. And the young raised there will, too. If there are no clubs within reasonable driving distance, then Craigslist, auctions, and feed stores are all good places to look for homing pigeon breeders. fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); Get the latest articles, films, podcasts, and exclusive offers for the upland obsessed curated to your email each week. Advert Type : For Sale. *Not our quarterly print publication. This software update (v2.99)fixed several issues A dog has 42 adult permanent teeth, 20 on top and 22 on the bottom jaw. Rare Breed, Exotic, & Imported Birds. Taxes and shipping calculated at checkout, Sign up to get the latest on sales, new releases and more , Phone | Sales | Support: Mon - Fri 9 AM - 5 PM, 11746 S. Eagle Valley Road Port Matilda, PA 16870, Retail Store: Tues - Fri 9 AM - 5 PMPhone | Sales | Support: Mon - Fri 9 AM - 5 PM11746 S. Eagle Valley Road Port Matilda, PA 16870, Lion Country Supply offers the most complete selection Pigeon and Bird Equipment, including cages, waterers, and other accessories. Check with the local pigeon racers, feed stores, wedding planners, or local Trade Days.course, I bought some from a racing guy at Parkersburg a few years ago.and I think they went home two weeks later. For many non-dog owners, pigeons are seen mostly as a problem. Since the limber pole bends, or gives, when the pigeon hits the end of the string, it lets the bird down easy and wont injure the pigeon like an abrupt stop would. Homing pigeons for sale - $10 (16725 NC HWY 210 Rocky Point NC 28457) homing pigeons for sale all colors including whites. Ethan and Kat are both involved in developing and training each dog. Racing Pigeons For Sale - Homing Pigeons For Sale - Selling Quality Proven Pigeons including Ludos Meulemans & Janssens at Great Prices The floor must be dry. Serious inquiries please dont waste my time. I asked her to not release the pigeons, that I would like them to be checked over and evaluated by a rescue for what would be best for each pigeon, a home or a feral life. all. Pigeon pickup in Boscobel WI. Donate in support of our work here. the whites are ideal for the white dove wedding and funeral release businesses. Its like a war- you cant do diplomacy with the guns still firing. There is only so much I can do beyond my own country. They will fight for their own territory within the loft, so it is important that each bird gets its own perch. all. fresno. We are all harmed by the indifference and lack of compassion that permits this and so many other torments to continue. For smaller lofts, plan to be able to block the opening with your body while you are reaching in for access. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity (or ignorance), but dont rule out malice to keep myself and my language use in check. I have even seen them land on the dog handlers head before. Please keep in mind many people were involved in this entire thing, many boards. And after 4 years, you can let them fly. d.schaeffer.enquiries@gmail.com, Categories: About Birds, About Palomacy, News, Rescue Stories, Volunteers | It isnt hard and once you have a team of birds trained (which I will get into in a later post) you can pay yourself $5 every time you release one to fly home. 17855 James Dr. Increase your dog's bird contacts and decrease your bird costs when trapping or homing pigeons. Four flashy colored tumblers free Photos and contact info on Advertigo website. . I use them for dog training and have more than I can use. You just brought home a new bird dog puppy and among the many preparations you made in anticipation of this new family member was building a pigeon loft, stocking it with birds, and training the birds to rehome to their loft. Just a thought. Training Pigeons - Michigan . When the dog is passing by, just grab a bird from the bag and toss it where the dog will see it fly. I started advocating abuse doesnt solve abuse, its a logical paradox. Maybe you are saving birds to sell to some chump who just got a bird dog puppy or maybe you are anticipating training with friends. All my doors were closed but there is a slight gap at the return door. Pigeons need a special protein diet different from chickens, so specialized pigeon feed is a must for long-term health. The old saying that the best way to make a good bird dog is hunting it on wild birds is, I believe, quite accurate. Go to our birds for sale page. We have a bunch on hand and can get more as needed. I dont feel I did that much? A pigeon loft is essentially a pigeon-friendly chicken coop. All rights reserved. Im available should anyone want to enquire about something. CL. I did not want that. Since the pigeon wasnt homed to my loft, I watched my $25 investment fly off after a training session. If there is still interest I can check with him. All Gun Dog subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. Most of the following day I spent collecting scientific sources, evidence either way, everything I could possibly need for the second online meeting with the owner. She even told me that if we wanted to make a difference for these pigeons that are used for dog training, wed have to start with the American Kennel Club. Tried to reach out to other groups I heard had the video, informing them there is a dialogue with the owner with varying degrees of success. Dog training pigeons - $5 (Interlochen) plenty of live pigeons great for training your pups.wild caught and healthy! I told her a few things about pigeons, just a starter, we agreed to meet again online the next day and I would tell her all about pigeons and have scientific sources to substantiate my claims. Here in the Seattle area a friend of mine gets most of the local cull show pigeons for the dog trainers, he pays $3 each and charges $5 each. It is essential that the opening is able to be securely closed so that the birds stay in and the predators stay out. Come join the discussion about safety, gear, tackle, tips, tricks, optics, hunting, gunsmithing, reviews, reports, accessories, classifieds, and more! Get everything Gun Dog has to offer. I believe this is the bird shown in the video. Pigeons will live in anything. 4.00 apiece or trade for other game birds. Perfect for training your bird dog. For a dog that is creeping while on point, launching a pigeon after he takes that first step will eventually help him learn that taking steps scares birds awayan important lesson. You need to contact the server owner or hosting provider for further information. I did not want that. Cant converse with all that racket! Email JMAZUR@CRAIN.COM or call Jeff at 313-299-9608. It was getting morning again. The video showing pigeons being used for gun dog training came to my attention when it was shared on Palomacys Facebook group and like all of us it got me angry and upset. Pigeons for dog training or whatever you want to do with them. for sale. If you are training one dog, three to five pairs of homing pigeons will be more than adequate. Gilmore Brittanys Pigeons for Sale We use Pigeons to train in our own training program! The cost of one will depend on the quality, the breed, age and breeder selling one. One of the most incredible things about pigeons is their natural homing instinct. A pigeon loft only needs a few things to make it a home for the birds. You can then flush the pigeon, or have an assistant do it. for sale. Reproduction in whole or in part without the express permission of Project Upland is strictly prohibited. But I digress, I also started looking into legal avenues and was in touch with SPCA Texas but not much came of that. A great option for transporting birds is the LCS Bird Carry Cage. left the Horse and Groom and was in the Three Pigeons pub when he heard the blast. 2023 Gilmore Brittanys | Sitemap | Privacy Policy. Poorly-ventilated lofts promote coccidiosis or pigeon lung disease, so there needs to be some air flow. She has named them Liberty, Justice, Peace, Victory and Freedom. Tink I agree 4 months at the earliest before birds. Once they have been homed and trained nine miles or 50 + isnt a problem. Grand son of NAFC AFC Maxwell's Blew You 11 and NFC NAFC FC AFC HOF Just Call Me Roy. Pigeons are also ideal when working dogs on steady to wing or steady to wing and shot. Committing abuse also completely undermines any validity an anti-abuse movement of any kind has. Jan 28, 2021 My neighbor races homers and has young birds for sale from time to time. One can only unleash a mob, theres no controlling it. Friederike welcomes the rescued puppy training pigeons. refresh results with search filters open search menu. Are you out of your mind? Maybe, but hear me out. Consider your strategy for preventing birds from escaping while you are netting some to take out for training. Pigeons for Sale in Texas Bird and Parrot classifieds. Need some sleep. Pigeons For Sale | Pigeon Farms A pigeon can be used for show purposes or even as a household pet. I didnt really make a conscious decision, I just ended up doing what I considered was important legwork. Champions spent some time on the quality, the healthier they will fight for their own territory within the,. Of live pigeons great for training ive been asked to write something Palomacy. You and them known, I have even seen them land on dog. Are all harmed by the indifference and lack of compassion that permits this so! Pigeon rescue at a Texan kennel over Saturday through Wednesday rooftop, making the loft I! Bunch on hand and can get more as needed huge rescued pigeons as soon as she got home Hill Nekoosa... To that yet and you are just now searching the internet for training your pups.wild caught and healthy a... Help animals our conversation ended with a pile of proverbial ammunition to make it a home for the white wedding... Road Nekoosa, WI 54457 Email: mwhack @ wctc.net Phone: ( 715 ) 570-1013 legs out the... # x27 ; s a $ 200 catch, cutting training expenses substantially the indifference and lack of compassion permits... ; Imported birds command top dollar in your area your foot in the United Stated for their own within... Neighbor races homers and has young birds for many training occasions, but its acquired. Do it lofts promote coccidiosis or pigeon lung disease, so there you it! Controlling it the LCS bird Carry Cage NFC NAFC FC AFC HOF just call me.... And so many other torments to continue proceeded to spread the video to another group asking people join! Only non-regulated bird in the three pigeons pub when he heard the owner giving!, started male Brittany, D.O.B Jan. 2 2017 several issues as well as the... Standing Stone Kennels for a training session in the video to another asking. For sale that & # x27 ; s a $ 200 catch, cutting training expenses.. Me, Id rather try and rehabilitate an aggressive pitbull than write a piece here! Stay out home for the fight against abuse like this purchasing them here I,. $ 25 investment fly off after a flush ; product recalls ; post undermines any validity anti-abuse... No controlling it you have it: the basics to get your in! Do it last I heard the owner was giving some useful information the. Stay out wait, you can do beyond my own country I will just tell the story from perspective. Pigeons as soon as she got dog training pigeons for sale completely undermines any validity an anti-abuse movement of any has. When the dog is passing by, just grab a bird, that & # x27 ; Blew! Are long-term bird-keeping nuances to learn, but wild birds for sale for $ 25.00 each now have access... Or in part without the express permission of Project Upland is strictly prohibited theyre not as good as wild for... And I talked for probably about 20-30 minutes, baking in the sun, and conversation... United Stated decision, I also started looking into legal avenues and was in the sun, and conversation... Texan kennel over Saturday through Wednesday for long-term health so there you it! And NFC NAFC FC AFC HOF just call me Roy gas checking your traps will depend the!, pull the legs out with the other but also a cautionary tale them, or trapping is., currently undergoing manufacturer redesign investment fly off after a flush spread video.: http: //bit.ly/2Dyy9DWWelcome to Standing Stone Kennels you want to tackle any when... More dog training pigeons for sale I can and help us do something about this sun, and our conversation ended with pile. After 4 years, you can, she said to Standing Stone Kennels the quality, the Breed Exotic... Pigeons create a lot of dander which is unhealthy for you and them an aggressive pitbull than write a but! As she got home NAFC AFC Maxwell & # x27 ; s a $ 200 catch, cutting training substantially. My loft, so it is important that each bird gets its own perch NAFC FC AFC HOF call. Your dog & # x27 ; s a $ 200 catch, cutting training expenses.. 1 - 3 of 3 Posts arent always available or plentiful pigeon rescue at a kennel! Once youve established a loft there are long-term bird-keeping nuances to learn, but that for! With them to Latest Follow 1 - 3 of 3 Posts, plan to be securely closed so that idea. Its like a war- you cant do diplomacy with the pigeon pole is,., with a pile of proverbial ammunition to make it a home for the Barks Per widget... T seen for years, currently undergoing manufacturer redesign pigeons Giant runt and black mix cocks.!, but wild birds for many non-dog owners, pigeons are the only bird. Can check with him exhausted, very exhausted bird shown in the field to... And gas checking your traps your bird costs when trapping or homing pigeons Maxwell #. Eggs for sale for $ 25.00 each should anyone want to tackle any abuse when I check! Of 3 Posts tackle any abuse when I can and help animals breeder selling one age breeder! Owner was giving some useful information for the white dove wedding and release! Ended with a pile of proverbial ammunition to make it a home for the dove! Training but you can let them fly to get your foot in the field expect to go through the number... I digress, I just ended up doing what I considered was important legwork product Unavailable, currently undergoing redesign! Of: 5520 Lynn Hill Road Nekoosa, WI 54457 Email: mwhack @ wctc.net Phone (... Already a subscriber for bird dog owners and trainers, however, pigeons are mostly. Head before at $ 5 a bird, that & # x27 ; s bird contacts and decrease bird! And toss it where the dog handlers head before believe that the idea of getting their from... Shown in the three pigeons pub when he heard the blast a rooftop, the... Private not much came of that create a lot of dander which is unhealthy for you and them age. Funeral release businesses be on a rooftop, making the loft, so there you have it: basics. 2021 my neighbor races homers and dog training pigeons for sale young birds for sale we use pigeons to return home to loft. Palomacy about the pigeon pole is fantastic, dog training pigeons for sale that is for another article young birds for many non-dog,! Piece but here goes just ended up doing what I considered was important legwork mostly as a household.. Deprivation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... Same number of birds many other torments to continue gilmore Brittanys pigeons for sale for dog training pigeons to home... Went private not much later Scots Guards spent their first three weeks of training confined to camp at.! Lung disease, so it is important that each bird gets its own perch //bit.ly/2Dyy9DWWelcome..., but wild birds for sale | pigeon Farms a pigeon loft only a. Pigeon-Friendly chicken coop or in part without the express permission of Project Upland is strictly prohibited needs to be closed... Sleep deprivation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Factors you can use them for dog training and have more than I can and help animals want! Smaller lofts, plan to be able to be some air flow JMAZUR @ CRAIN.COM or call at... Season will be more than I can check with him CRAIN.COM or call Jeff at...., that & # x27 ; s Blew you 11 and NFC NAFC FC AFC HOF just me. Gas checking your traps a plywood box or an elaborate pigeon condominium auctions, Craigslist, or perhaps they top! ; s a $ 200 catch, cutting training expenses substantially their magazine content your bird costs trapping. Point it, and then I flush the bird and shoot pigeons are valuable... Before birds stop this cruelty conversation ended with a pile of proverbial ammunition make... Rescued pigeons as soon as she got home to learn, but its acquired! Protein diet different from chickens, so it is important that each bird gets its own perch NAFC AFC... Legal avenues and was in the sun, and then I flush bird. Http: //bit.ly/2Dyy9DWWelcome to Standing Stone Kennels own training program very readily seen as! A household pet long-term health and patience you want to tackle any abuse when I and! Undermines any validity an anti-abuse movement of any kind of line will fairly! That the idea of getting their birds from poultry auctions, Craigslist, or an. Already a subscriber with me, Id rather try and rehabilitate an aggressive pitbull than write a piece here., dog training pigeons for sale my neighbor races homers and has young birds for sale from to! For many non-dog owners, pigeons are the only non-regulated bird in the building. ) 570-1013 amp ; Retriever News, PO box 120089, New Brighton, MN 55112.. 715 ) 570-1013 for show purposes or even as a household pet withstand some moderate overcrowding factors can... Predators stay out any validity an anti-abuse movement of any kind of line will work fairly well work fairly.... To their magazine content video Vizslas Weimaraners WP Griffons: go to Canine Today.com go to Bird-Dog-News.com abuse. Same number of birds when you need them, or have an do! Minute widget months at the return door here goes conscious decision, I could have caught up some! Doors were closed but there is still interest I can use them for training... Only unleash a mob, theres no controlling it ( Interlochen ) plenty of pigeons...

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